freenode/lisp - IRC Chatlog

20:41:56 X-Scale` ** NICK X-Scale

22:20:14 F________ ** NICK Feldman

22:21:21 Feldman Hello, is scymtym online?

22:21:49 scymtym Feldman: sure

22:22:31 Feldman So I was looking at Robert Strandh's paper and I wanted to implpment it as my university project. I was told on the discord that you had partial done some of it and that I should contact you.

22:23:08 scymtym which paper are you referring to?

22:23:49 Feldman The one on generic dispatch

22:23:58 Feldman http://metamodular.com/SICL/generic-dispatch.pdf

22:26:23 scymtym i see. by now, there are multiple implementations that are to some extent based on that technique. what i did is actually pretty far from what the paper describes. part of the reason is that i targeted SBCL

22:26:45 scymtym i talked a bit about my implementation here: https://techfak.de/~jmoringe/dispatch-demo.ogv

22:27:28 Feldman are there? which implementations?

22:28:42 scymtym as far as i know, SICL (by Robert Standh) has one, ECL has most of the required infrastructure and Clasp more or less implements what is described in the paper

22:29:16 Feldman that's very good to hear, but SBCL doesn't have it at the moment?

22:29:26 scymtym correct

22:30:04 Feldman Do you think it would still be worthwhile writing my own implementation in the SBCL code?

22:30:05 scymtym i did everything as a separate generic function class and only as a prototype

22:30:43 scymtym depends on what your goal is

22:31:26 Feldman Fast generic functions on SBCL

22:31:39 Feldman a vaguely novel university project

22:34:08 scymtym that is worthwhile in my opinion, but i'm not sure it would make a good university project. since SBCL organizes standard instances and also other objects very differently compared to the assumptions of the paper, you would have to bridge over many gaps

22:34:32 scymtym while that makes the project more interesting and researchy, it is also hard and requires time

22:34:41 Feldman How does SBCL organise them?

22:34:48 scymtym as i said, what i did is pretty far from the paper

22:35:33 Feldman Officially the project is 300 hours of work, but in practice it ends up being more than that.

22:35:42 scymtym SBCL has immediate objects with lowtags, instances with a layout, a classoid and a class, "other pointers" with a widetag

22:36:00 scymtym (you can get a feeling for those in the video i linked)

22:36:16 Feldman (yeah the video is still downloading)

22:37:02 scymtym i think making something that could actually replace the dispatch part of PCL in SBCL is much more work. you could aim for a proof-of-concept, of course

22:37:42 Feldman Hmm..., what about implementing it in CCL then? Would CCL be more amenable?

22:38:06 scymtym you know what, i mentioned that ECL now has some of the infrastructure required for fastgf which was in fact added in order to eventually implement it. maybe as jackdaniel about adding fastgf to ECL instead

22:38:32 scymtym *maybe ask

22:45:13 Bike i have also implemented the thing, so you can ask me too

22:45:24 Bike it's true that it relies on how standard objects are structured

22:45:52 Feldman sorry what do you mean implemented "the thing"? what thing? (infrastructre on ECL, worked on fastgf on Clasp etc)

22:47:10 Bike i have implemented beach's fast generic dispatch in clasp

22:47:28 Bike i mean, drmeister did it first, but i've pretty much rewritten it all a few times by now, so i'm familiar with the workings

22:48:51 Feldman ah ok, so how difficult would it be for SBCL vs CCL vs ECL

22:49:40 scymtym i would say ECL probably much easier than SBCL. i have no idea for CCL

22:50:44 Feldman My worry with ECL is that if all the "infrastructre" is there, it might not be enough to count, but SBCL does seem much harder yeah.

22:53:11 scymtym jackdaniel is one of the maintainers of ECL. he should have a good idea of what would need to be done for ECL. he is available in this channel during European daytime most of the time

22:54:04 Feldman Scymtym, what exactly did you mean by "infrastructure" now that I think of it? I'll make sure to contact jackdaniel as well ofc

22:55:02 scymtym i don't know any details but i think jackdaniel changed or extended the object representation in ECL to add stamps

22:56:21 Feldman ahh I see that would make it much nicer

23:00:54 scymtym https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23sicl?around=1586853658#1586853658

23:02:06 Feldman Thanks

23:28:42 Bike even with that in place, implementing the rest is plenty of work

23:36:36 Feldman Yeah if "infrastructe" is just the stamp then it should be perfect.

1:43:24 npfaro hi

1:44:14 npfaro i have a problem with slime/emacs. When i put the cursor inside a form where the auto-complete would kick in, it puts the Common Lisp one provided from slime in the minibuffer, but then about half a second later it's overwritten by the ELisp one

1:44:16 npfaro which is quite annoying

1:44:21 npfaro has this happened to anyone else

1:47:21 ludston npfaro: Are you using the lastest version of Emacs/slime/your lisp implementation? What auto-complete package are you using in emacs?

1:48:40 npfaro ludston: not really auto-complete but rather the little function signature that appears in the minibuffer. I think it's called eldoc? I just disabled eldoc-mode in the lisp buffer though and it's still doing it so idk

1:48:50 npfaro I can try updating my stuff

1:53:13 npfaro i should be on the latest slime now

1:53:17 npfaro no difference

1:55:51 ludston Probably something in your .emacs file is hooking elisp to the same auto-complete lib? I assume you are coding in both elisp and CL?

1:56:00 npfaro https://i.imgur.com/bwEKemF.gif

1:56:04 npfaro Here's a gif of the issue

1:56:11 npfaro watch the minibuffer

1:56:19 npfaro I'm not actually coding in elisp, just CL

1:56:48 ludston Oh my that's annoying

1:58:02 Bike i've never seen that before. was eldoc-mode the only elisp mode?

1:59:01 npfaro eldoc mode isn't actually an elisp mode i don't believe

1:59:06 npfaro it's for any language

1:59:25 npfaro also, disabling it doesn't get rid of the issue

1:59:30 npfaro so it might be unrelated to eldoc

1:59:47 Bike i'm just wondering if there's some other mode doing it.

2:00:26 npfaro is lisp-mode the correct mode to be editing CL in?

2:00:43 ludston To me it smells like there is some hook in your .emacs file like (add-to-list 'some-elmacs-buffer-hook 'some-elisp-fn-lookup)

2:00:58 Bike on my system lisp files are edited in the lisp major mode, yes.

2:01:24 npfaro https://pastebin.com/cuTWWvEG

2:01:30 Bike it looks like i have both eldoc and global-eldoc minor modes on but loop displays correctly

2:01:56 Bike oh, you have... quite a few more minor modes than i do

2:02:12 Bike same slime minor modes as me tho

2:02:16 npfaro yeah, i use spacemacs :p

2:03:19 ludston You might be better off asking a spacemacs channel if there is one

2:04:03 npfaro alright. as far as i can tell, there's nothing touching elisp or slime in my config file

2:06:02 ludston I'm assuming that slime-autodoc mode is what is bugging out

2:08:10 ludston Could be a conflict between company and slime-autodoc?

2:09:25 ludston It's weird that you have company, but not slime-company

2:11:49 Nilby I ran into problems like this. But I'm not sure I solved them. I just turned off slime-autodoc.

2:11:50 npfaro aha. it's "semantic-mode" that's causing the issue

2:12:07 Nilby But I have some code like this https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/2248#2248 in my start up.

2:15:42 npfaro looks like global-semantic-idle-summary is the culprit

2:15:50 npfaro Do any of you folks use that mode successfully

2:15:53 npfaro or is it even worth having turned on

2:19:30 Nilby I realized all kinds of auto messages on timers annoyed me.

2:21:22 Bike i don't use semantic.

2:23:58 charles` If I want to change directory, load file, then change back, why doesn't this work. It doesn't seem to change directory properly?

2:24:18 charles` (let ((cwd (uiop:getcwd)))

2:24:18 charles` (uiop:chdir "new-dir")

2:24:18 charles` (load "file.lisp")

2:24:18 charles` (uiop:chdir cwd)))

2:24:42 Nilby charles`: **default-pathname-defaults*

2:25:11 charles` instead of uiop:chdir I change that variable?

2:28:32 Nilby I'm sorry to say it's complicated and slightly implementation dependent. On some implementations you can just chdir, on some you have to set *default-pathname-defaults*, on some maybe both?

2:31:17 Nilby If you want I can share a thing that does it on most implementations?

2:31:36 charles` That would be cool. I have seen shcl though

2:31:49 charles` I assume they figured it out