freenode/lisp - IRC Chatlog

16:08:44 srandon111 guys i wasa reading how to design programs... and i wanted to understand what it means to design data and functions in an orthogonal way so that they are independent

16:09:01 srandon111 can you make me an example of when these are not orthogonal and hence not independent?

16:14:57 beach srandon111: It depends on what you mean by "data". Typically, an abstract data type has protocol functions associated with it, but there is no explicit definition of the data type in terms of its representation.

16:15:41 beach srandon111: But if your representation shows in the protocol, then the dependency is there. That is something you would want to avoid.

16:17:44 beach srandon111: For example, let's say you want to define the data type "editable sequence" and you decide to represent it as a binary tree. If then you have a functions left-child and right-child in your protocol, then it is blatantly obvious that you are representing the editable sequence with a tree.

16:18:30 srandon111 okok

16:18:40 srandon111 beach what do you suggest to learn lisp?

16:18:41 beach srandon111: If instead you have only functions for inserting, deleting, and querying the sequence at certain positions, your protocol is now independent of the repersentation.

16:18:44 srandon111 is there something interactive?

16:18:46 beach representation even.

16:19:04 beach All major Common Lisp systems are interactive.

16:19:46 beach The very definition of the Common Lisp semantics is "interactive" in that the semantics are defined by a suite of interactions.

16:19:55 srandon111 i mean interactive excersis something like 4clojure

16:20:46 beach I am afraid I don't know what is. You may have to wait for someone else to answer.

16:25:25 phoe hmm

16:25:31 phoe Lisp Koans are somewhat interactive

16:25:48 phoe but I am not aware of any interactive tutorial for the language

16:26:07 phoe nothing with all the bells and knobs and whistles that you can run in your browser or anywhere.

16:28:02 pjb phoe: use more cliki!

16:28:23 pjb https://cliki.net/Online%20tutorial

16:28:47 pjb Note that "Online tutorial" contains both ONLINE and tutorial, and some online tutorials are really ONLINE!

16:28:56 pjb such as LispTutor Jr is an online tutorial with interactive exercises to test your knowledge and understanding.

16:29:16 pjb or ELM-ART is an interactive and adaptive Web-based Lisp tutorial

16:29:34 pjb I don't understand why people don't use more cliki…

16:29:44 pjb Somebody should add it back in the /topic!!!

16:36:19 phoe pjb: ooooh

19:32:14 Josh_2 Is there an error here in the hyperspec http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_prog1c.htm see prog2?

19:32:28 beach Yes, it is well known.

19:32:45 Josh_2 Alrighty :P

19:35:13 beach You can find a complete list on cliki.net

19:35:28 beach ANSI Clarifications and Errata

20:10:15 aeth Heh. It looks like the move to the impressive-looking SBCL 2.x got Fedora to finally update its SBCL from the ancient SBCL 1.4.14, at least in the upcoming release. https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/sbcl/

20:10:31 aeth I guess one side effect of major version number bumps is Linux/etc. distros might care more.

20:16:47 Ober 👍

21:11:08 jackdaniel 1.4.x is not that ancient

21:11:18 jackdaniel but good for them